Episode #3 - ENGLISH Robert Bruneau

[00:00:00] Due to our global focus, we are providing this podcast in four major languages.

[00:00:04] While the original interview was conducted in Spanish, AI was used to create the English version.

[00:00:10] While accurate, it may not fully capture the original interviews, expression and excitement.

[00:00:15] We hope it still proves useful and encouraging.

[00:00:18] Welcome to the Global Pastor Trainers Podcast.

[00:00:21] Brought to you by the Global Proclamation Commission,

[00:00:24] where we have the vision to see all Pastor leaders trained and every Pastor a trainer.

[00:00:30] Let's get started!

[00:00:31] Welcome to the third episode of our podcast.

[00:00:33] My name is Hermon Rica, and we're excited to be together once again.

[00:00:37] Third episode, we're thrilled to see our podcast audience growing,

[00:00:40] and along with Robbie Richard, we're hosting this podcast with a lot of anticipation.

[00:00:44] In this third episode, we have a special guest, so I'd like to turn the microphone over to Robbie

[00:00:49] to introduce him.

[00:00:50] Thank you, Herman.

[00:00:51] Yes, it's such a pleasure for us to be back with you all.

[00:00:54] Today we have the privilege and the honor, the opportunity to hear from Pastor Robert Bruno.

[00:00:58] A little bit about him, although we'll hear more in a moment.

[00:01:01] He grew up in a pastoral family, dedicated to ministry,

[00:01:04] he holds a bachelor's degree in physical education and recreation from the University of Panama,

[00:01:08] and God used that career path as he served as the director of several camps in Panama and Costa Rica.

[00:01:13] He was also the executive director of the International Association of Christian

[00:01:17] Camps in Latin America.

[00:01:18] Additionally, for the past 24 years, he has been a missionary with Mason Global,

[00:01:22] currently serving as the regional leader for South America and the coordinator of

[00:01:26] synergy training for Latin America with Mason Global.

[00:01:29] We'll hear more about how he transitioned from camp director to trainer of pastors.

[00:01:32] He's been married to Nina Perez for 28 years, has two daughters, Nicole, 23, and Joan 18,

[00:01:40] and has been living in Medellín for the past eight years.

[00:01:43] He loves the outdoors and enjoys teaching the Bible.

[00:01:46] I can relate to that, Robert.

[00:01:48] He's deeply committed to mentoring pastors and leaders in their walk with the Lord and in their

[00:01:53] overall leadership development.

[00:01:55] Robert, it's a pleasure to have you with us today.

[00:01:58] It's a privilege to join you on this third podcast.

[00:02:01] It's an honor to share and to have listened to the previous episodes,

[00:02:05] knowing that God is using this tool to encourage support and provide us with ideas for our pastoral work.

[00:02:12] So thank you for the invitation.

[00:02:13] That's great. Thank you very much.

[00:02:14] I think I first thought you might as well be.

[00:02:17] I could tell us a little bit about your life in Evangelia.

[00:02:19] Let you to the Lord and eventually, you're going to pastor Son.

[00:02:21] And we also, I'd like to hear about your journey.

[00:02:23] I was born into a pastor trainer.

[00:02:25] Gospel was introduced from birth and that's a privilege.

[00:02:28] It's something God chooses, it's his will.

[00:02:31] I grew up in a Christian home in a pastoral family.

[00:02:34] From the beginning, our church had the pastor's house right next door.

[00:02:38] So for me, the house and the church were like one place.

[00:02:42] Growing up, I had a room that was my bedroom during the week

[00:02:45] and a Sunday school room on the weekends.

[00:02:48] It was an integrated life, faith and church life intertwined with home life.

[00:02:53] However, at the age of nine, I realized it needed to be a personal decision.

[00:02:57] The Gospel touched my heart, not just my mind.

[00:03:00] The message started to sink in and I understood that I was a sinner.

[00:03:04] Even though I hadn't experienced much of the consequences of sin yet,

[00:03:09] like drugs or abuse that you hear in other testimonies.

[00:03:12] But I had a strong conviction of being a sinner.

[00:03:14] And that helped me understand my need for a Savior.

[00:03:17] So it was a response to God, hearing the Gospel and having it moved from my mind to my heart.

[00:03:23] My parents were a huge influence on that transition,

[00:03:26] along with Sunday school, camps and vacation Bible schools.

[00:03:30] All those traditional church experiences contributed to my conversion

[00:03:34] and my confession of faith in Jesus Christ.

[00:03:37] Since I was nine years old, I've been walking with the Lord fully committed, no turning back.

[00:03:42] That decision of faith at nine years old set the course for my life.

[00:03:47] The church has always been a formative space for me, a place for growth and leadership development.

[00:03:52] I'd like to connect this experience with being a pastor's son,

[00:03:56] which I believe is also common among many listeners.

[00:03:59] I've understood ministry since childhood.

[00:04:02] It's not that I transitioned into training pastors, but rather,

[00:04:05] I've always understood the reality of pastoral families,

[00:04:08] the needs of pastors, children, their families,

[00:04:12] and of course the pastors themselves and their wives.

[00:04:15] This has always added significance to what I do.

[00:04:18] It's something the Lord has used to shape my future ministry.

[00:04:22] For me, it provided a great pastoral family experience,

[00:04:25] and now I understand what I'm doing.

[00:04:27] That's good, Robert.

[00:04:29] I imagine many people listening can relate to your story,

[00:04:32] being born into a Christian home, and then starting to walk with the Lord.

[00:04:36] How did you get to the point where you embraced what you're doing today with Mesa Global?

[00:04:42] What was that journey like, and can you tell us more about what you're doing with Mesa Global?

[00:04:48] Of course, I think it's important to understand that God uses all ministries and opportunities

[00:04:53] to train us. He doesn't waste any opportunity.

[00:04:56] Whether it's a prolonged desert of difficulties and weaknesses, or places where you can serve,

[00:05:01] collaborate, and learn from others, God uses it all.

[00:05:06] Praise God since I was 12 years old, He blessed me with mentors and older Christian leaders.

[00:05:12] They were all part of God's gift to me during my formative years.

[00:05:16] Many of them, including my father, taught me the discipline of Bible study,

[00:05:21] reflection on the scriptures, and theological knowledge.

[00:05:24] The process was a bit long 12 years, but I knew the Lord was calling me to ministry.

[00:05:29] By the age of 16 or 17, I was already assisting my father with preaching and teaching.

[00:05:36] My point about service opportunities is that God doesn't waste any opportunity in these areas.

[00:05:42] Even though camps are often seen as places for play and for kids,

[00:05:46] they were actually places for leadership development.

[00:05:49] When we think of leadership, we often think of someone who manages, commands, and controls.

[00:05:55] But the biblical principle of leadership is servant leadership,

[00:05:57] learning to serve, and camps provided that first opportunity for serving,

[00:06:03] whether it was in the kitchen at the pool or meeting kids under a tree to share the gospel.

[00:06:08] The camps gave me a formative experience as a servant leader, being a camp director

[00:06:13] allowed me to meet many pastors. I hosted many churches and had important conversations with

[00:06:18] pastors in my office. When I was 25, 30, or 35 years old, pastors would come and share their stories

[00:06:25] with me. Today, all those stories are a wealth of experience for me. My transition was that the

[00:06:31] Lord gave me the opportunity to join Mesa Global 24 years ago as a missionary.

[00:06:36] Although the cultures are similar in Latin America, I still had a cross-cultural experience

[00:06:41] traveling throughout Latin America, meeting pastors, and developing work teams in some countries.

[00:06:47] Now through the CCI Alliance with Christian camps, we have teams in 10 countries.

[00:06:52] Mesa Global then approached me and said, Robert, we need you to join us in an initiative

[00:06:57] to support pastors and leaders in South America. That's what I'm doing now. We now have a

[00:07:03] network of pastors and leaders in South America, missionaries ministering to congregations,

[00:07:09] others serving organizations with vulnerable children. I'm currently pastoring a team of nearly

[00:07:14] 35 pastors, leaders, and missionaries in South America, including Cuba and Panama.

[00:07:20] Pastoring is a calling, but it's also a great responsibility. It has taken time to learn how to

[00:07:26] shepherd and support pastors well and with enthusiasm. That's good. Listening to your story,

[00:07:32] it seems there's a training path that starts with your dad to you, and now from you to others.

[00:07:38] It brings up a lot of thoughts. First, it's fantastic that your parents involved you in ministry.

[00:07:44] Often, we might not see our family as an ally in our ministry work and instead view them as a

[00:07:49] country. This can lead to negative effects, like resentment in children, which many of us have

[00:07:55] probably seen. But about the discipleship or training, whatever we call it, what does that look

[00:08:01] like now? You mentioned you oversee over 30 different leaders and pastors. What innovations or challenges

[00:08:08] have you faced and overcome? What strategies are you and Mesa Global implementing? What are

[00:08:18] it is important to make a visit? To be with people? South America is obviously a very large

[00:08:23] territory geographically speaking. Therefore, it's important to visit to get close to people

[00:08:30] and to personally support them. The Pauline letters are not the only thing that gives encouragement,

[00:08:36] writing sending messages. That is important. We do that. It is not so innovative, but now

[00:08:41] everybody writes on social media and sends letters. But I think that something that we have certainly

[00:08:46] forgotten is staying in some of the pastor's houses. And it sounds like I am inviting myself,

[00:08:53] but in fact, we are already so close and we already have a deep and profound relationship with them.

[00:08:59] Just living together, being with them. Some of them are very experienced missionaries and spending

[00:09:04] time with them and eating, enjoying going for a walk, listening to their story. Many of them say that

[00:09:11] they don't have such regular times with another leader and they are very grateful when we take

[00:09:16] two or three days to be with them, to play with their children, especially if some of them are

[00:09:22] very young. I think this is a leadership example of being present and not just delivering content.

[00:09:28] Being present as a leader is something Christ centered for me. It is incarnating the model of

[00:09:34] Jesus. It is to cook a fried fish by the river bank and then you can even smell the conversation,

[00:09:39] it becomes more nourished, deeper, closer. And this is something that we are trying to do regularly.

[00:09:46] Another challenge I think for us, especially for me and that is how we handle time to find a balance.

[00:09:52] Now this is true for any pastor anywhere and in any culture. We don't know how to stop.

[00:09:58] One challenge is to find those moments to stop and to go and visit another who is also busy.

[00:10:03] This is something that I teach a lot in training and in pastoral formation and I try to encourage

[00:10:08] it among the pastors and that is before going into a new year to plan those moments to stop.

[00:10:15] Not to wait until they are tired to say, look I need to stop now.

[00:10:19] Now burnout and emotional burdens are very common nowadays. Look, the first thing they ask you to

[00:10:24] do when you are burned out is to get a place to rest. Another recommendation is to look for a hobby.

[00:10:30] Something that can help you get your mind off things. I started to think why I don't do this as

[00:10:36] something regular in my life to take out time to stop and look for a hobby.

[00:10:41] Something recreational that can help me to make a cycle and this helps me to have a more healthy

[00:10:46] management of my time. Nowadays, pastors and leaders do not know how to stop.

[00:10:52] And the truth, your mind and robbing, I'm very concerned about that feeling of,

[00:10:55] I am very proud when I say I don't have time.

[00:11:00] Our own practices to intentionally take out some pastors, even pastors from the city,

[00:11:04] and go to a hotel for four days to rest. To talk, there is not much biblical content.

[00:11:10] We even ask the pastors not to preach that next Sunday so that they may have an actual break

[00:11:15] and stop. Sabbath is simply stopping. It is not slowing down. It is not pausing.

[00:11:21] Sabbath actually means to stop. And that is very hard to us. And that is a practice that we are

[00:11:27] trying to make with our pastors and those that we are training, even those church planters

[00:11:32] that are just starting a rhythm of life. That is good to hear.

[00:11:36] I think another part of this is that we don't know how to stop, but there are also expectations

[00:11:41] from others that we, as pastors, shouldn't stop. I just heard a story back in Mediine,

[00:11:47] a pastor told me that once, when another pastor was resting outside in a hammock,

[00:11:52] a lady from the church passed by an asked, Pastor, what are you doing? He replied, just resting.

[00:11:59] She said, but the devil never rests and he responded. Well that's why I don't want to be like the

[00:12:06] devil. It's that pressure from people that the pastors should always be doing something. But when

[00:12:11] we talk about the health of the pastor, if the pastor is in healthy, either will the church be?

[00:12:16] You know Robby, I've been hearing recently about another issue that adds to the complexity.

[00:12:21] We don't know how to rest. We're so used to the external and internal pressure of always having

[00:12:27] to be doing something. We feel as Robert was saying earlier, super good when we can say,

[00:12:32] I have a full schedule. I have no time to rest. But when we do rest, whether because we're close

[00:12:38] to burnout or because of mentor or someone close to us tells us, hey, you have to stop.

[00:12:44] We don't know how to do it. We think rest means doing nothing. And that makes us uncomfortable

[00:12:50] because we don't know how to interact with that feeling. So Robert, I really appreciate your comment.

[00:12:56] This ministry of presence is key. I think we're getting to the heart of the matter.

[00:13:02] A few days ago, we had a meeting. Every first Monday of the month, a group of 140 of us meet on Zoom.

[00:13:08] One of the themes that came up regarding raising up new trainers of pastors is the need for time,

[00:13:14] but not just time to deliver content. Time to spend with someone, to get to know them and

[00:13:20] from that place help them move forward in what God has for them. So Robert, I welcome those two points.

[00:13:26] Even though they may not be groundbreaking, going back to the way the Lord did things

[00:13:31] feels groundbreaking today. I think it's practically innovative. Something no one else is doing.

[00:13:37] We had a retreat. And when I say retreat, I mean, it wasn't a spiritual retreat.

[00:13:40] We withdrew from the city almost 25 pastors from Mededine. In our morning conversations,

[00:13:45] one thing we discussed was that God created man with a rhythm. What was Adam's first day?

[00:13:49] It was the Sabbath, really. Right? So we have a life cycle of work and rest.

[00:13:53] Jesus lived it. He worked. He did ministry, but he would also take his disciples away from the city.

[00:14:00] There was a constant practice of withdrawing. The devil knows there's a blessing in stopping.

[00:14:05] Because when you stop, you have the opportunity to reflect, to look back and say,

[00:14:10] wow, look at what the Lord has done. To look at the present and say, wow, look at what the Lord has given

[00:14:16] me, and to look into the future with hope. But you can't do that when you're constantly running.

[00:14:22] Yeah, right. Running makes you miss the signs. When you're driving really fast on a highway,

[00:14:27] you miss the signals. Sometimes we just need to slow down. The devil knows there's a great blessing

[00:14:33] in stopping and refocusing on Jesus in a cyclical, regular, and constant way. His first temptation

[00:14:40] is to keep us busy, to give us more to do, and to make us feel guilty for resting, because he

[00:14:45] knows the blessing that comes with it. Why is that? Because it's a commandment, not a suggestion.

[00:14:51] It's in the list of commandments. And I think many of us aren't fulfilling it by stopping regularly.

[00:14:57] What a pity that we haven't had to develop a theology of adultery or idolatry,

[00:15:02] but we've had to write books on the theology of rest. We've had to justify why we need to rest

[00:15:07] and explain to pastors with a lot of biblical awareness. Why stopping is a commandment?

[00:15:13] It's written and has been remembered throughout biblical history. So I believe it's a matter of

[00:15:21] us for pastors. In discipleship, that's why the congregation like the sister who told the pastor

[00:15:26] that the devil doesn't rest has these demands, because we're not teaching our churches the process

[00:15:32] of rest. And we use any pretext to avoid it. It's also cultural. There's a work ethic, a whole history,

[00:15:40] a literature on the subject of work and rest that sometimes confuses us and makes us think that leisure

[00:15:45] is the mother of all vices. That's why I think there's an important reflection needed so that the

[00:15:51] pastor can teach and maybe even practice rest with the congregation. I think part of that is also our

[00:15:58] own independence and autonomy. We sometimes feel like we have to be the saviors of our congregation,

[00:16:04] but in reality it's still about our identity. That's why when I see pastors who are no longer

[00:16:10] pastors, they don't know how to live anymore. They've been stripped of that identity of responding

[00:16:15] to all the needs of the people, which is good, but they placed their whole being in that role

[00:16:21] and they promoted it. And we justify it because we're in ministry. If we did something else,

[00:16:27] people might notice it's not right, but because we're in ministry, we justify it. Thank you for that.

[00:16:33] I think it's very applicable for those who are listening. In closing, Robert, we didn't want

[00:16:39] to take up too much of your time, but maybe regarding that. Or perhaps something else,

[00:16:44] what words of encouragement or suggestions would you have for new pastors and trainers of pastors

[00:16:49] who are just starting out? How would you encourage them as they begin their journey or in what they

[00:16:54] are already doing? Yes, I'm very encouraged by Psalm 78-72. It's a passage that gives me a balanced

[00:16:59] view of David's life. Generally, when we talk about pastors accompanying pastors or pastoring pastors,

[00:17:06] we focus a lot on the skills, the work of the pastor, giving him more tools and ideas about

[00:17:12] evangelism and discipleship and checking in on how he's doing with the church. However,

[00:17:18] this text speaks to me about shepherding according to the integrity of the heart. That has to do

[00:17:23] with character. And character is developed when you have a rhythm of balance, when you take time

[00:17:29] to develop that character. When you look at the past, the present, and the future during a time of

[00:17:35] stopping allows you to examine how you're growing, how you're developing. And when you are

[00:17:40] a shepherd of shepherds, you must first learn to stop. Dealing with content is important,

[00:17:45] but character is crucial. The presence of the pastor is vital because it's about who you are.

[00:17:52] You can't hide who you are in someone else's house. For me, character is something that can be

[00:17:56] modeled. The idea is to model this in the life of your shepherds. The other part of the Psalm

[00:18:02] says and he shepherded them with the skill of his hands. So there were skills, qualities,

[00:18:08] and tools to be used in shepherding. I believe in balancing character, which is the being

[00:18:13] with the skills needed to shepherd. Some pastors have a lot of skills for preaching and teaching

[00:18:19] the Bible, but they still struggle with character issues like anger. Others are very vulnerable,

[00:18:25] but lack leadership skills. I would encourage new pastors to find that balance between

[00:18:30] character and the skills of the hands and to be present in people's lives.

[00:18:36] Take time to just be one encouragement, and this is something I'm living,

[00:18:40] is to not only think of your congregation outside as your flock, but also remember your first

[00:18:45] congregation, your family. I'll end with this. One day the Lord woke me up at 3 a.m. and took

[00:18:52] me to Ezekiel 34. I began to read about the judgment on the shepherds, and I didn't think about

[00:18:57] my congregation first. I thought about my family, my wife and my daughters. I asked myself,

[00:19:03] what am I doing? How much time am I spending being busy with others while possibly neglecting

[00:19:09] my first flock, my family? It struck me that a word of encouragement is to not only dedicate

[00:19:15] a ministry of presence to those who are accompanying, but also to take care of our main permanent

[00:19:20] flock, which is our family. They will be with us for the rest of our lives. Thank you so much,

[00:19:26] I really want to thank you for being on this episode, and for your vulnerability and advice

[00:19:31] on balancing character and capabilities, and for reminding us to look at our family as the first

[00:19:36] place to practice the ministry of presence. Thank you to all of you who are listening as well.

[00:19:41] We want to hear from you so we encourage you to reach out to us on social media at G Pro Commission.

[00:19:46] Let us know your thoughts on this episode and the podcast. We're growing in audience,

[00:19:50] thanks to the Lord, our audience is global. And we have the opportunity to hear from men like Robert

[00:19:55] a pastor who trains pastors. The beautiful message he shared with us is to keep in mind the

[00:20:00] intentionality of working with people, having a vulnerable heart, a pure character, and letting the

[00:20:05] Lord work. So thank you for being with us, Robbie. Do you have any final words?

[00:20:09] Thank you so much, Robert. That brief exposition on Psalm 78 verse 72 was really impactful,

[00:20:14] and I'll definitely be reflecting on it. If someone wanted to reach out to you, what would be the

[00:20:19] best way to get in touch? The best way is to write to me. What's up is an easy option, but you can

[00:20:23] email me at arbrunoatmesaglobal.co. Great, thank you!